One Life To Live Discussion Group
Message Responses
Subject: Again with the ''most people'' thing. Pot must give you amazing insight into what everyone else does and doesn't want to see. --Crane eom
Response Posted by: Crane Tolliver
Date Posted: Wed Nov 11 16:00:39 2009
Message:
eom
Subject: Well it's true, most people who view the show don't want to see it. I cringe when it comes on. Even you must know that most viewers don't want to see that and they're not all bigots either.
Response Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date Posted: Wed Nov 11 16:16:10 2009
Message:
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Subject: You don't know what most people want to see or don't want to see. --Crane eom
Response Posted by: Crane Tolliver
Date Posted: Wed Nov 11 18:26:06 2009
Message:
eom
Subject: Nor do you, Crane. She may be right. Why do you always have to attack? eom/sea
Response Posted by: sea
Date Posted: Wed Nov 11 19:49:45 2009
Message:
x
Subject: I agree Miss B. I think the majority of the audience could do without seeing two men kissing. Honestly, what does it add to the show??? The guy who plays Kyle looks bored and Fish can't act. What is the hype between those two??
Response Posted by: mary
Date Posted: Wed Nov 11 22:26:40 2009
Message:
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Subject: Ok, does anyone know the percentage of gay men to the percentage of gay to straight men in our society? And then, you would have to consider the percentage of gay vs/straight men in the viewers of soaps. Then maybe we could know truly know if MOST people don't want to see it. (That is assuming that all gay men enjoy watching gay men kiss on soaps!) Did this make any sense??? EOM< MSKitt
Response Posted by: MSKitt
Date Posted: Wed Nov 11 23:24:20 2009
Message:
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Subject: The percentage of heteros in our society is much higher than that of homosexual.So most viewers would be hetero. Given that information it would be safe to say most do not want to see two men kissing.
Response Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date Posted: Wed Nov 11 23:47:50 2009
Message:
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Subject: Miss.Bear erroneously assumes that being heterosexual means not wanting to see same-sex displays of affection. Extrapolating from the comments on this board, it seems that most viewers aren't bothered by same-sex couples getting equal treatment, and quite a few straight women find gay male pairings romantic. As Crane pointed out, Miss.Bear has no authority to speak for most viewers.
Response Posted by: Brhannada^sArmour
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 1:16:14 2009
Message:
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Subject: Interesting question MSKitt and, yes, it, did make sense. Going by the latest ratings, males 18+ make up a little under 20% of OLTL's audience. (439,000 males out of 2.5 million total viewers). There are no firm statistics regarding the US gay population but estimates generally go from a high of 10% from the old Kinsey report to as low as 1-2% in more recent studies. But going with the high of 10% just for the sake of argument that would put OLTL's gay male audience at best somewhere between 1-2% of the total audience. You could argue that Kish might attract a larger than usual gay male soap audience but ratings don't support that and in fact OLTL has sunk to the bottom of the soap heap in the men 18+ demo. So Ms Bear may well be right that the majority of the audience aren't actively interested in seeing two gay men kissing (gasp!) but that's not the same thing as being actively put off by it. I'm not put off by it but I'm also not all that interested in a month of build-up to the big gay wedding and the big gay kiss. In the words of Agnes Nixon, *and then what*?
Response Posted by: kari2
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 3:26:31 2009
Message:
Subject: The percentage of mixed-race hetero couples watching OLTL is probably pretty small too, but that doesn't mean the audience doesn't want to see Cris and Layla kissing. The assumption that all straight people don't want to see gay relationships on TV is myopic. Gay storylines offer novelty. On soaps that have done most stories a million times -- Tea has a secret child! Mitch has a secret child! Bo has a secret child! -- we've never seen real gay relationships. So on freshness alone, I would not be surprised if OLTL's Kyle/Fish pairing helps ratings more than it hurts among people who find gay PDAs off-putting. --Crane eom
Response Posted by: Crane Tolliver
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 9:01:50 2009
Message:
eom
Subject: Sea: I'm not the one telling people OVER and OVER and OVER that gay relationships are abnormal and offensive and everyone agrees with me. --Crane eom
Response Posted by: Crane Tolliver
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 9:04:07 2009
Message:
eom
Subject: kari2, your calculation assumes that the frequency of homosexuality in the male soap-viewing population is the same as in the male population at large. Isn't it possible that the scientifically validated differences in brain structure make gay men far more likely to gravitate to soaps? Of course, your calculation is irrelevant anyway because one doesn't have to be gay to support gay representation.
Response Posted by: Brhannada^sArmour
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 11:11:21 2009
Message:
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Subject: I hope Kyle and Oliver kiss each day just so you have to change the channel.
Response Posted by: Pat
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 11:42:23 2009
Message:
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Subject: I am not the slightest bit interested in the kissing stuff, but I don't have a problem about it, because whatever I'm not interested in, I just fast forward. I don't have to stop watching the parts of the the soap I DO enjoy. I suppose if you're Gay, it's nice to have a storyline that reflects your life, so if that is what the viewers want, it will stay, if not, it won't. Pretty simple. Until the jury's in, I just fast forward ANY storyline that I don't like to see. Always have! I don't particularly like the gay stories, (can't speak for other heteros), but I am not comfortable telling other people what they must like or not like. By the same token, I don't think it's right to attack someone else because they state what they don't like, as long as they are not trying to force that on someone else. In the end, ratings are what TIIC are after, and that will be the tell, no matter what any of us like! Then we will have the choice to either watch it or not.//pf
Response Posted by: pathfinder
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 12:29:24 2009
Message:
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Subject: Oh yippie B.A strikes again! Most hetero people who happen to be the majority of viewers do not want to see that. Most of them would change the channel, or some even stop watching. You are in the minority of people who want to see it. Put aside the political correctness just this once and you'll see. The ratings are sinking like the Titanic. I won't even be upset when it goes.
Response Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 13:19:52 2009
Message:
c
Subject: I honestly don't know any straight people who enjoy watching gay kisses. Not just on soaps. Straight people for the most part are not going to be supporting this whole gay scene on daytime T.V. It's one thing to say 'I don't mind gay characters' and a whole other thing to see them kiss and make out. It's really only appealing to the gay audience who we already said are in the minority.
Response Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 13:34:58 2009
Message:
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Subject: It's one thing to say 'I don't mind black characters' and a whole other thing to see them kiss and make out. -- Miss Bear 40 years ago
Response Posted by: Crane Tolliver
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 16:26:48 2009
Message:
eom
Subject: I honestly don't know any white people who enjoy watching coloreds kiss. Not just on soaps. White people for the most part are not going to be supporting this whole colored scene on daytime T.V. It's one thing to say 'I don't mind colored characters' and a whole other thing to see them kiss and make out. It's really only appealing to the colored audience who we already said are in the minority. -- More Miss Bear
Response Posted by: Crane Tolliver
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 16:28:01 2009
Message:
eom
Subject: Well Miss Bear, you sure can spark a fire lol. By the way, comparing an interracial kiss between a Man and Woman to two men kissing is stupid. Good luck miss b
Response Posted by: mary
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 17:45:33 2009
Message:
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Subject: mary is right. When we kissed on November 22, 1968, everyone knew that it wasn't nice because the mind-controlling aliens made us do it. One Life To Live hasn't offered any believable excuse for Kyle and Oliver's abnormal attraction to each other. There's just no comparison. - Capt. Kirk and Lt. Uhura
Response Posted by: Brhannada^sArmour
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 19:13:41 2009
Message:
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Subject: Well BA, iam glad you finally see that two men making out is abnormal. It didn't even take 2 paragraphs from you. Impressive.
Response Posted by: mary
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 20:22:59 2009
Message:
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Subject: Well BA, iam glad you finally see that two men making out is abnormal. It didn't even take 2 paragraphs from you. Impressive.
Response Posted by: mary
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 20:24:12 2009
Message:
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Subject: What's impressive is that you can't recognize sarcasm or irony, mary. Two men kissing is no more abnormal than alien mind-control is believable. In 1968, people like you insisted that an interracial kiss was abnormal and Star Trek would be cancelled if it aired. In 1973, Bridget Loves Bernie got cancelled because of hate mail about a Catholic/Jewish civil marriage. Someday, the idea that anyone found Kyle/Oliver objectionable will seem just as surreal.
Response Posted by: Brhannada^sArmour
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 20:41:56 2009
Message:
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Subject: Hey Crane guess what? I wasn't around 40 years ago!
Response Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 22:11:53 2009
Message:
c
Subject: I love how when they don't know what else to do they bring in the race issue. All I said was the majority of viewers who happen to be hetero don't want to see two men kissing. I even based it on facts in that the majority of our society is hetero and the minority is homo and that most hetero don't want to see it. Somehow race got mixed into it, classic!
Response Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 22:15:38 2009
Message:
c
Subject: Look in the mirror BA, your the one who can't recognize sarcasm. You take simple post and begin to lecture folks on the amazing world of homosexuality, everyone who sees different is a bigot, and blah, blah, blah.....
Response Posted by: mary
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 22:20:39 2009
Message:
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Subject: To paraphrase LaFontaine's wolf, Miss.Bear, ''If it wasn't you, it was your grandmother.'' Of course, I mean ''grandmother'' figuratively, just as Crane was figuratively referring to those whose prejudices resembled yours 40 years ago, not you physically.
Response Posted by: Brhannada^sArmour
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 22:24:38 2009
Message:
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Subject: Care to defend your claim that the interracial kiss controversy isn't like the same-sex controversy, mary?
Response Posted by: Brhannada^sArmour
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 22:27:12 2009
Message:
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Subject: People like me?? Here we go again. I have no problem with an interracial STRAIGHT couple. All species in existence go towards the opposite sex. Any deviation from that is abnormal. I don't know how the Jewish Alien from star trek came into this.
Response Posted by: mary
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 22:30:32 2009
Message:
11
Subject: Defense:You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. Lev 18:22
Response Posted by: mary
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 22:59:14 2009
Message:
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Subject: Mary, now is the perfect time to back out of this conversation. They're just dumbing it down with things that aren't even relevant to the topic and the name calling is probably going to begin.
Response Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 23:00:34 2009
Message:
c
Subject: Posters seems to have gone on a mass exodus from the AMC and OLTL boards. So as ridiculous as this is, atleast its a discussion.
Response Posted by: mary
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 23:07:38 2009
Message:
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Subject: I like discussions too but I don't like being called 'bigot' or refered to as racist because I don't like watching two men kissing. I don't feel like I should have to defend my beliefs to people's who's minds are already made up about me.
Response Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 23:49:08 2009
Message:
c
Subject: ......comparing a dislike to gay kisses to racisim is beyond stupid.
Response Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date Posted: Thu Nov 12 23:53:27 2009
Message:
x
Subject: mary, the truth is that same-sex mating has been observed in hundreds of species and is far too frequent to be considered abnormal. As for the Bible, it is still used by the Ku Klux Klan and others to justify bigotry against interracial couples. When the courts in Virginia upheld anti-miscegenation laws, the judges referred to biblical stories like the Tower of Babel and declared that God put different races on different continents so that they wouldn't mix. The Book of Ezra gives the names of over 100 Jewish men who were ordered by God to divorce their non-Jewish wives and disown their children. It's funny that you don't seem to know that, but you can cite Leviticus saying that male/male sex is as bad as eating shellfish or working on Saturday. (Never mind that the topic is male/male kissing, not sex!) Does it bother you when OLTL breaks the other taboos in Leviticus? Bo Buchanan violated Leviticus 18:8 (''Don't uncover your father's wife'') with both Delilah and Becky Lee - was that distasteful to everyone who wouldn't do it? What about when Duke Buchanan did it with Kelly? River Carpenter violated Leviticus 18:13 (''Don't uncover your mother's sister'') with Adrianna - did that make it impossible to watch OLTL? Clint Buchanan and Kevin Buchanan each violated Leviticus 18:16 (''Don't uncover your brother's wife'') - will that result in cancellation?
Response Posted by: Brhannada^sArmour
Date Posted: Fri Nov 13 0:22:53 2009
Message:
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Subject: Oh gee what surprise, B.A came back bringing up racisim and even the Ku Klux Klan. Mary was only being asked to defend the same sex contraversy as being different than the interacial controversy which she did. We sure got way off the topic didn't we? I can't believe what this topic escalated into. There's no comparing not wanting to see gay kisses on daytime T.V to racisim. It's ridiculous.
Response Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date Posted: Fri Nov 13 1:54:49 2009
Message:
c
Subject: For those who are new here, Miss Bear and Mary hate gay people and never miss the opportunity to tell the rest of us that homosexuality is abnormal and no one wants to see gay people having romantic relationships on their TV. Miss Bear is also a marijuana smoker, which is ironic considering how judgmental she is about telling other people how to live their lives. --Crane eom
Response Posted by: Crane Tolliver
Date Posted: Fri Nov 13 9:38:42 2009
Message:
eom
Subject: That's a good point, Brhannada^sArmour. The only time the haters trot out the Bible to use against OLTL is when it shows gay people. Every other form of non-biblical behavior over the last 40 years was OK to them. --Crane eom
Response Posted by: Crane Tolliver
Date Posted: Fri Nov 13 9:40:45 2009
Message:
eom
Subject: For those of you new here, Brhannadas ^Armour and Crane Tolliver think they're the moral conscience of this board. They like to throw around words like 'racisim', and 'bigot' and slam the Bible. I never once told somebody how they should live their life, I don't care. I only say that I don't like gay kisses on my T.V and no I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle but I'm not telling people what they can and can't do.
Response Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date Posted: Fri Nov 13 13:31:10 2009
Message:
c
Subject: ...and you have been most likely proven wrong over and over again in that the majority does not want to see gay romance. Is that why the need to attack?
Response Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date Posted: Fri Nov 13 13:36:07 2009
Message:
c
Subject: That because no one here goes around preaching about the virtues of abortion, adultery, murder etc.
Response Posted by: mary
Date Posted: Fri Nov 13 13:38:28 2009
Message:
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Subject: You were asked a specific question(gay vs. racial controversy) and you gave them a specific answer. Now they turn it around into I don't even know what. You're right, I never heard anybody talk about the virtues of adultry or murder etc...
Response Posted by: Miss.B
Date Posted: Fri Nov 13 13:57:18 2009
Message:
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Subject: I've never slammed the Bible. I've slammed our two resident homophobes for constantly turning this board into their anti-gay platform. You should be ashamed of yourselves. --Crane eom
Response Posted by: Crane Tolliver
Date Posted: Fri Nov 13 15:15:47 2009
Message:
eom
Subject: Really, similar to your pro-gay platform. Some viewers object to a kiss between two men. There is no need for the constant lecture. Homophobia is a fear of gays. Who is afraid of gays? Quit throwing the word when you have nothing relevant to contribute crane.
Response Posted by: mary
Date Posted: Fri Nov 13 17:20:07 2009
Message:
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Subject: If you want to talk about what you think about gay characters, I have no problem with it. But when you insist that you know what everyone else thinks, and you repeat the BS that everyone agrees with you that gays are abnormal, I'm going to have a problem with it. As would any decent person who is tired of seeing gays treated as if they are freaks. --Crane eom
Response Posted by: Crane Tolliver
Date Posted: Fri Nov 13 18:10:58 2009
Message:
eom
Subject: But you do have a problem with us telling about what we think of gay characters. Everytime I say I don't like to watch two men kiss I get some sort of a negative comment from you. As far as saying the majority doesn't want to see it either, there's truth to that as has already been explained above. That's a lot different than telling everybody what they think. Anytime someone says they don't agree with the gaylifesyle they're labled as 'haters' 'bigots' and even racists. Where's your openmind when it comes to a different viewpoint?
Response Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date Posted: Sat Nov 14 0:20:29 2009
Message:
c
Subject: You're not smart enough to understand this, but I'll try to make the point one last time. When you express your opinion about gay characters, that's fine. When you take it further and insist that the majority agrees with you and gays are abnormal and the Bible says so, it's offensive. You're turning your individual feelings about gay characters into an attack on all gay people. That's completely unnecessary, and I'm not open-minded about that kind of bigotry being expressed on a soap board. Since gays started kissing on OLTL, a couple of people have used that as an excuse to insult and belittle real gay people. That's out of line. You shouldn't use a soap opera to spread a message of hate. This place should be fun. --Crane eom
Response Posted by: Crane Tolliver
Date Posted: Sat Nov 14 23:58:05 2009
Message:
eom
Subject: You're only openminded for those singing the praises of homosexuality anything else according to you must be hate and bigotry. I'm a hater according to you for not enjoying watching two men kiss.
Response Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date Posted: Sun Nov 15 13:45:01 2009
Message:
c
Subject: And I find your attacks, name calling and insults completely unneccisary.
Response Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date Posted: Sun Nov 15 13:47:20 2009
Message:
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Subject: As I said, not smart enough. It is a waste of time to try educating you. --Crane eom
Response Posted by: Crane Tolliver
Date Posted: Sun Nov 15 21:32:24 2009
Message:
eom
