I don't think you should conclude that something is wrong with you because you dislike seeing two men kiss. My guess is that you will get over it as homosexual characters become a more accepted part of mainstream TV and movies, but it is still new for people today.

I support the addition of gay characters and am glad to see OLTL make the gutsy move of showing a few PDAs here and there. But I will admit that it's shocking enough to be a bit of a distraction from the story.

There's some really nice affection between them that isn't expressed physically. Kyle's shy smile when Oliver called him his "boyfriend" was nice.

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Well, I still am not sure how I feel about it becoming a mainstream event on soaps. Right now, I don't like seeing it. EOM, MSKitt

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Posted by: Rosebud1
Date posted: Wed Nov 11 15:55:42 2009
Message:
There are straight couples onscreen that I don't 'get' either.  There is also such a thing as miscasting & having a couple that isn't believeable--straight or not.

I've seen gay couples onscreen that I find believeable & those I don't.  I have never bought ATWT's gay couple onscreen--the actors have no chemistry!  I've also never bought any coupling w/Katie on ATWT for the same reason.

Just because I don't think that couples work doesn't mean that ALL of them are horrible or that none of them CAN be believeable.  Far from it.

The really sad thing is that I don't find anything about THIS gay couple believeable, but OLTL has done a couple of wonderful gay oriented storylines that I found very moving & believeable.  So has ATWT.

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ITA. Some of this stuff is just to unbelievable

I doubt I would find ANY two men kissing ok. Not as of right now anyway. But I can see what you are saying. I said above that I find couples that I like ALOT more appealing in sex scenes than ones that I don't like. EOM, MSKitt

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Posted by: Brhannada^sArmour
Date posted: Wed Nov 11 13:47:04 2009
Message:

You can't help what you like or don't like, just as others can't help feeling uncomfortable when middle-aged characters kiss, or a child actor fumbles a towel, or white people get semi-naked. Try not to worry about being in the minority. I never do.

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I wouldn't say the op is in the minority of not likeing to watching that. I would say in the majority.

BA, that was nicely said and generous of you. vh

Now this reply just cracks me up!!! White people half naked!!!! That is just too much! You are funny. EOM, MSKitt

vh, you are too kind. MSKitt, I don't dislike white people or find them ugly, but when I see them parading their wrinkly, blotchy skin and intermittent fuzz... shudder! Why do the writers insist on asking white actors to do scenes that are only sexy when normal people do them? The poor actors who get tans to try to fit in just end up looking completely out of their element.

you are too much!! hahahaha. EOM, MSKitt

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Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date posted: Wed Nov 11 13:34:55 2009
Message:

You don't have a problem. I don't like watching that on my screen either. I change the channel every single time I see those two men kissing. They should(the writters) know that most people don't want to see that.

I personally don't have anything against gay people I don't neccesarly agree with it but I don't treat them any differently than I would anybody else but I do not want to see gay kisses. You're okay, nothing is wrong with you.

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Again with the ''most people'' thing. Pot must give you amazing insight into what everyone else does and doesn't want to see. --Crane eom

Well it's true, most people who view the show don't want to see it. I cringe when it comes on. Even you must know that most viewers don't want to see that and they're not all bigots either.

You don't know what most people want to see or don't want to see. --Crane eom

Nor do you, Crane. She may be right. Why do you always have to attack? eom/sea

I agree Miss B. I think the majority of the audience could do without seeing two men kissing. Honestly, what does it add to the show??? The guy who plays Kyle looks bored and Fish can't act. What is the hype between those two??

Ok, does anyone know the percentage of gay men to the percentage of gay to straight men in our society? And then, you would have to consider the percentage of gay vs/straight men in the viewers of soaps. Then maybe we could know truly know if MOST people don't want to see it. (That is assuming that all gay men enjoy watching gay men kiss on soaps!) Did this make any sense??? EOM< MSKitt

The percentage of heteros in our society is much higher than that of homosexual.So most viewers would be hetero. Given that information it would be safe to say most do not want to see two men kissing.

Miss.Bear erroneously assumes that being heterosexual means not wanting to see same-sex displays of affection. Extrapolating from the comments on this board, it seems that most viewers aren't bothered by same-sex couples getting equal treatment, and quite a few straight women find gay male pairings romantic. As Crane pointed out, Miss.Bear has no authority to speak for most viewers.

Interesting question MSKitt and, yes, it, did make sense. Going by the latest ratings, males 18+ make up a little under 20% of OLTL's audience. (439,000 males out of 2.5 million total viewers). There are no firm statistics regarding the US gay population but estimates generally go from a high of 10% from the old Kinsey report to as low as 1-2% in more recent studies. But going with the high of 10% just for the sake of argument that would put OLTL's gay male audience at best somewhere between 1-2% of the total audience. You could argue that Kish might attract a larger than usual gay male soap audience but ratings don't support that and in fact OLTL has sunk to the bottom of the soap heap in the men 18+ demo. So Ms Bear may well be right that the majority of the audience aren't actively interested in seeing two gay men kissing (gasp!) but that's not the same thing as being actively put off by it. I'm not put off by it but I'm also not all that interested in a month of build-up to the big gay wedding and the big gay kiss. In the words of Agnes Nixon, *and then what*?

The percentage of mixed-race hetero couples watching OLTL is probably pretty small too, but that doesn't mean the audience doesn't want to see Cris and Layla kissing. The assumption that all straight people don't want to see gay relationships on TV is myopic. Gay storylines offer novelty. On soaps that have done most stories a million times -- Tea has a secret child! Mitch has a secret child! Bo has a secret child! -- we've never seen real gay relationships. So on freshness alone, I would not be surprised if OLTL's Kyle/Fish pairing helps ratings more than it hurts among people who find gay PDAs off-putting. --Crane eom

Sea: I'm not the one telling people OVER and OVER and OVER that gay relationships are abnormal and offensive and everyone agrees with me. --Crane eom

kari2, your calculation assumes that the frequency of homosexuality in the male soap-viewing population is the same as in the male population at large. Isn't it possible that the scientifically validated differences in brain structure make gay men far more likely to gravitate to soaps? Of course, your calculation is irrelevant anyway because one doesn't have to be gay to support gay representation.

I hope Kyle and Oliver kiss each day just so you have to change the channel.

I am not the slightest bit interested in the kissing stuff, but I don't have a problem about it, because whatever I'm not interested in, I just fast forward. I don't have to stop watching the parts of the the soap I DO enjoy. I suppose if you're Gay, it's nice to have a storyline that reflects your life, so if that is what the viewers want, it will stay, if not, it won't. Pretty simple. Until the jury's in, I just fast forward ANY storyline that I don't like to see. Always have! I don't particularly like the gay stories, (can't speak for other heteros), but I am not comfortable telling other people what they must like or not like. By the same token, I don't think it's right to attack someone else because they state what they don't like, as long as they are not trying to force that on someone else. In the end, ratings are what TIIC are after, and that will be the tell, no matter what any of us like! Then we will have the choice to either watch it or not.//pf

Oh yippie B.A strikes again! Most hetero people who happen to be the majority of viewers do not want to see that. Most of them would change the channel, or some even stop watching. You are in the minority of people who want to see it. Put aside the political correctness just this once and you'll see. The ratings are sinking like the Titanic. I won't even be upset when it goes.

I honestly don't know any straight people who enjoy watching gay kisses. Not just on soaps. Straight people for the most part are not going to be supporting this whole gay scene on daytime T.V. It's one thing to say 'I don't mind gay characters' and a whole other thing to see them kiss and make out. It's really only appealing to the gay audience who we already said are in the minority.

It's one thing to say 'I don't mind black characters' and a whole other thing to see them kiss and make out. -- Miss Bear 40 years ago

I honestly don't know any white people who enjoy watching coloreds kiss. Not just on soaps. White people for the most part are not going to be supporting this whole colored scene on daytime T.V. It's one thing to say 'I don't mind colored characters' and a whole other thing to see them kiss and make out. It's really only appealing to the colored audience who we already said are in the minority. -- More Miss Bear

Well Miss Bear, you sure can spark a fire lol. By the way, comparing an interracial kiss between a Man and Woman to two men kissing is stupid. Good luck miss b

mary is right. When we kissed on November 22, 1968, everyone knew that it wasn't nice because the mind-controlling aliens made us do it. One Life To Live hasn't offered any believable excuse for Kyle and Oliver's abnormal attraction to each other. There's just no comparison. - Capt. Kirk and Lt. Uhura

Well BA, iam glad you finally see that two men making out is abnormal. It didn't even take 2 paragraphs from you. Impressive.

Well BA, iam glad you finally see that two men making out is abnormal. It didn't even take 2 paragraphs from you. Impressive.

What's impressive is that you can't recognize sarcasm or irony, mary. Two men kissing is no more abnormal than alien mind-control is believable. In 1968, people like you insisted that an interracial kiss was abnormal and Star Trek would be cancelled if it aired. In 1973, Bridget Loves Bernie got cancelled because of hate mail about a Catholic/Jewish civil marriage. Someday, the idea that anyone found Kyle/Oliver objectionable will seem just as surreal.

Hey Crane guess what? I wasn't around 40 years ago!

I love how when they don't know what else to do they bring in the race issue. All I said was the majority of viewers who happen to be hetero don't want to see two men kissing. I even based it on facts in that the majority of our society is hetero and the minority is homo and that most hetero don't want to see it. Somehow race got mixed into it, classic!

Look in the mirror BA, your the one who can't recognize sarcasm. You take simple post and begin to lecture folks on the amazing world of homosexuality, everyone who sees different is a bigot, and blah, blah, blah.....

To paraphrase LaFontaine's wolf, Miss.Bear, ''If it wasn't you, it was your grandmother.'' Of course, I mean ''grandmother'' figuratively, just as Crane was figuratively referring to those whose prejudices resembled yours 40 years ago, not you physically.

Care to defend your claim that the interracial kiss controversy isn't like the same-sex controversy, mary?

People like me?? Here we go again. I have no problem with an interracial STRAIGHT couple. All species in existence go towards the opposite sex. Any deviation from that is abnormal. I don't know how the Jewish Alien from star trek came into this.

Defense:You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. Lev 18:22

Mary, now is the perfect time to back out of this conversation. They're just dumbing it down with things that aren't even relevant to the topic and the name calling is probably going to begin.

Posters seems to have gone on a mass exodus from the AMC and OLTL boards. So as ridiculous as this is, atleast its a discussion.

I like discussions too but I don't like being called 'bigot' or refered to as racist because I don't like watching two men kissing. I don't feel like I should have to defend my beliefs to people's who's minds are already made up about me.

......comparing a dislike to gay kisses to racisim is beyond stupid.

mary, the truth is that same-sex mating has been observed in hundreds of species and is far too frequent to be considered abnormal. As for the Bible, it is still used by the Ku Klux Klan and others to justify bigotry against interracial couples. When the courts in Virginia upheld anti-miscegenation laws, the judges referred to biblical stories like the Tower of Babel and declared that God put different races on different continents so that they wouldn't mix. The Book of Ezra gives the names of over 100 Jewish men who were ordered by God to divorce their non-Jewish wives and disown their children. It's funny that you don't seem to know that, but you can cite Leviticus saying that male/male sex is as bad as eating shellfish or working on Saturday. (Never mind that the topic is male/male kissing, not sex!) Does it bother you when OLTL breaks the other taboos in Leviticus? Bo Buchanan violated Leviticus 18:8 (''Don't uncover your father's wife'') with both Delilah and Becky Lee - was that distasteful to everyone who wouldn't do it? What about when Duke Buchanan did it with Kelly? River Carpenter violated Leviticus 18:13 (''Don't uncover your mother's sister'') with Adrianna - did that make it impossible to watch OLTL? Clint Buchanan and Kevin Buchanan each violated Leviticus 18:16 (''Don't uncover your brother's wife'') - will that result in cancellation?

Oh gee what surprise, B.A came back bringing up racisim and even the Ku Klux Klan. Mary was only being asked to defend the same sex contraversy as being different than the interacial controversy which she did. We sure got way off the topic didn't we? I can't believe what this topic escalated into. There's no comparing not wanting to see gay kisses on daytime T.V to racisim. It's ridiculous.

For those who are new here, Miss Bear and Mary hate gay people and never miss the opportunity to tell the rest of us that homosexuality is abnormal and no one wants to see gay people having romantic relationships on their TV. Miss Bear is also a marijuana smoker, which is ironic considering how judgmental she is about telling other people how to live their lives. --Crane eom

That's a good point, Brhannada^sArmour. The only time the haters trot out the Bible to use against OLTL is when it shows gay people. Every other form of non-biblical behavior over the last 40 years was OK to them. --Crane eom

For those of you new here, Brhannadas ^Armour and Crane Tolliver think they're the moral conscience of this board. They like to throw around words like 'racisim', and 'bigot' and slam the Bible. I never once told somebody how they should live their life, I don't care. I only say that I don't like gay kisses on my T.V and no I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle but I'm not telling people what they can and can't do.

...and you have been most likely proven wrong over and over again in that the majority does not want to see gay romance. Is that why the need to attack?

That because no one here goes around preaching about the virtues of abortion, adultery, murder etc.

You were asked a specific question(gay vs. racial controversy) and you gave them a specific answer. Now they turn it around into I don't even know what. You're right, I never heard anybody talk about the virtues of adultry or murder etc...

I've never slammed the Bible. I've slammed our two resident homophobes for constantly turning this board into their anti-gay platform. You should be ashamed of yourselves. --Crane eom

Really, similar to your pro-gay platform. Some viewers object to a kiss between two men. There is no need for the constant lecture. Homophobia is a fear of gays. Who is afraid of gays? Quit throwing the word when you have nothing relevant to contribute crane.

If you want to talk about what you think about gay characters, I have no problem with it. But when you insist that you know what everyone else thinks, and you repeat the BS that everyone agrees with you that gays are abnormal, I'm going to have a problem with it. As would any decent person who is tired of seeing gays treated as if they are freaks. --Crane eom

But you do have a problem with us telling about what we think of gay characters. Everytime I say I don't like to watch two men kiss I get some sort of a negative comment from you. As far as saying the majority doesn't want to see it either, there's truth to that as has already been explained above. That's a lot different than telling everybody what they think. Anytime someone says they don't agree with the gaylifesyle they're labled as 'haters' 'bigots' and even racists. Where's your openmind when it comes to a different viewpoint?

You're not smart enough to understand this, but I'll try to make the point one last time. When you express your opinion about gay characters, that's fine. When you take it further and insist that the majority agrees with you and gays are abnormal and the Bible says so, it's offensive. You're turning your individual feelings about gay characters into an attack on all gay people. That's completely unnecessary, and I'm not open-minded about that kind of bigotry being expressed on a soap board. Since gays started kissing on OLTL, a couple of people have used that as an excuse to insult and belittle real gay people. That's out of line. You shouldn't use a soap opera to spread a message of hate. This place should be fun. --Crane eom

You're only openminded for those singing the praises of homosexuality anything else according to you must be hate and bigotry. I'm a hater according to you for not enjoying watching two men kiss.

And I find your attacks, name calling and insults completely unneccisary.

As I said, not smart enough. It is a waste of time to try educating you. --Crane eom

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Posted by: SqueezeMe
Date posted: Wed Nov 11 13:26:27 2009
Message:

You're fine.  Knowing homosexuality exists, even accepting it, is not the same as seeing it on t.v.  It just isn't.  As you see it more often, you will become desensitized to it, but your initial reaction is perfectly normal, IMO.  Particularly if you, like me, cringe a bit no matter who is kissing.  I mean, some soap kisses/love scenes are hot, but the majority of them are awkward and uncomfortable for me to watch, regardless of the sex of the participants.

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Well said. IRL, I have problems with most PDAs, heterosexual and homosexual. Same with a lot of sex scenes in movies and TV any more. They are becoming more and more graphic and I, for one, wish more was left to the imagination. Pushing the envelope is not always a good thing to do. Having said that, I don't have a problem with Oliver and Kyle. They just seem so ''right'' together. Wanda Wolek

I enjoy graphic sex and violence in movies, but this is still daytime t.v. There are just some things I don't want or expect to see. If the genre changes, I'll change with it, but it doesn't need to change on my account. //SM

So what you're saying is ''no sex in the McDonald's bathroom''?? Damn I paid for a whopper too :D

Well, as said above, I too have somewhat of a problem thinking that I have to become *desensitized* to it to be able to watch my soaps. EOM, MSKitt

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