It is also possible to pay some orthodontists on a credit plan ~ Rhonda
Posted by: Gallagher
Date posted: Thu Oct 22 8:10:32 2009
Message:
I loved all the scenes with Roxy and Shane - I find it so incredibly sweet that these two have found each other, and I think it's hysterical that they have written his braces into the show. The two are very natural together (as are the relationships with Rex, Gigi with them too). I didn't even mind the product placement - I found them funny.
HOWEVER - even though I'm actually fine with Llanview becoming the most liberal community in the country, even I did a "come on" when the only thing Shane said when he saw two dudes kissing as, "I wish my parents kissed again."
BS!
No he didn't! No kid thinks that or wants to see his parents making out in public!
Shane would have been surprised to see two men kissing because you don't normally see two men kissing! Why would that have been so tough for OLTL to let happen? With very, very few exceptions in this country, the sight of two men lip locking in the middle of a greasy spoon diner would have given people pause. I'm not saying they shouldn't have done that with Kyle and Nick, but at least let the reactions be realistic.
"Oh gee - I'm a 13 year old boy and when I see two guys kissing I think about my parents."
Eeeeeesh! Come ON One Life to Live!
Yes - most kids these days are more aware and tollerant of gays than some adults want to give them credit for, and we have seen evidence that Shane is very respectful of adults (when they aren't his parents or whore bag of an aunt or crazy exwife of his dad), but you will never (!) find a more vocal group of homophobes on the planet than teenage boys - sorry - even the "good ones" can't help it, especially if they are in organized sports, where anything "lame" is referred to as being "gay." Sorry - it's the way it is.
Replies: (list all replies)
I agree 100%! I work with kids and have kids myself, and kids Shane's age and teens, especially boys, would NEVER had the reaction that Shane had. Just because the writers wish it, doesn't make it so. ...Nancy
I also agree 100%. Very well put.
Posted by: lurdane22
Date posted: Thu Oct 22 1:21:16 2009
Message:
To Shane I could see it as no big deal. Shane has other things to ponder/worry about:
Almost died.
Getting braces.
Dad slept with his aunt.
Has a cousin/brother-sister on the way (as far as he knows)
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FANTASTIC points! haha! /eom/Gallagher
Posted by: Donna
Date posted: Thu Oct 22 0:24:56 2009
Message:
I agree, it was not a reaction that any kid I know would have. Not for anything, but I'm feeling an agenda being pushed on this show lately, and I'm not liking it. Nothing against anyone who is gay, and the Kish relationship was great. Now I feel like they are shoving their personal agenda at me with the wedding stuff. The ratings are not good to begin with. I feel they are going to plummet with this storyline. As a long-time viewer, I'm on the verge of giving the show up. JMO.
Posted by: Miss.Bear
Date posted: Wed Oct 21 23:51:39 2009
Message:
IA, a 12 year old boy would probably have giggled or stared like what the heck??? Even adults would have been uncomfortable watching two men kiss. Shane's reaction was very unreal. I'm not just saying this just because I don't like Shane. The PC writters portrayed him like some very mature adult.
Posted by: Rhonda
Date posted: Wed Oct 21 23:45:48 2009
Message:
Newsflash: For most people under the age of 25, gay people are no big deal. I have a good friend with 4 kids ages 7-14 and Prop 8 was a big discussion around their family dinner table -- the oldest girl was pro marriage equality, her brother was against. But both kids readily admit they know who their gay classmates are. BTW, mom is a born again christian and dad is a die hard republican so it's not like these are the progeny of some L.A. liberals. For the most part, prejudice against gay people is generational -- in 10 years folks will wonder what the fuss was all about.
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You make it sound like it's a race issue. It's a sexual preference and btw how the heck do kids between ages of 7-14 know if they're gay? They know the gay kid in class? Are they experimenting at that age? I sure hope not.
JMO, but your friend and her kids are weird. No kid I know sits around the dinner table discussing Prop 8! You must be kidding! Most kids don't even know what that is, and why should they!
Rhonda, I'm with you. Both my children have been aware of this issue since they were in grade school and you're right, it isn't a big deal with them. They have friends both gay and straight. I know the subject is discussed openly among them because they've told me, and it's not because we had sat down and had a big family talk about it. That is a change from the way things were in my generation, but then that was a time when a lot of subjects were taboo or were not discussed like sex in any shape or form or even drugs until about sixth grade when we had our sex education classes, such as they were and when we were first warned about the dreaded marijuana plant! Yes, Miss B. ''Refer Madness'' was shown readily to sixth graders when we were warned about how it could easily lead to other drugs. I mean the next thing you know, you could be sniffing glue, then taking LSD and jumping off buildings! So, times change. To put this into perspective, I'm now in my fifties. Proudmary
OMG, if I read anymore political correctness on this board I am going to scream! How do grade school children know anything about gay? They don't know who's gay. If anything they might think gay is cool by what they see on T.V it looks like the latest trend. IA those kids are wierd who talk about prop 8 at the dinner table while most kids don't even know what that is. Gay is not the norm, we had a discussion on it a few topics up nothing to do this hate or bigotry. Because it is not the norm it will not be widely accepted. That is how it differs from race issues and such. BTW, Refer Madness is a great movie to watch while stoned.It was hilliarous!
Yes, people get a kick out of ''Refer Madness'' now, but my point was there was a time when it was a big deal as was the idea that smoking pot at a young age was addicting and would lead to harder drugs, and believe me we were warned about that in sixth grade. I remember the film we saw showed kids going from pot smoking to sniffing airplane glue and then straight to the roof top with the teenager perched on the ledge ready to fly off the roof due to the halucinations of LSD, even though medical science did not support that horor scenario, and it still doesn't, but the fact remains that marijuana is still an illegal drug here. I brought this up because you obviously are of the opinion that smoking pot is fine and you readily defend it on this board and I think that you certainly have your right to your opinion. You also have a right to express your opinion on gays and what you think young children should be exposed to as do those of us who have no problem with young children being aware of gay couples, those who agree that medical science supports the idea that being gay is not a choice, it is a biological fact of life and that gay couples should have the same rights and privilages as straight couples. This is not just a matter of being PC. and it is certainly appropriate to discuss it on this board since it is a one of the main storylines on One Life to Live and it has been brought up as a topic for this message. Feel free to express your opinions Miss B. and Mary. Just be aware that others on this board are free to express theirs as well even if you don't agree with what we might say. Proudmary
Unless all the gay people raised their hands in class, I'm a little scare of kids who think they know who ALL the gays are in their school. Thats ridiculous and sounds a little like McCarthism to me.
I don't find it at all hard to believe that kids in California discuss Prop 8 at the dinner table. I find it less likely that kids in middle America are discussing it. I don't imagine most kids know a thing about Prop 8, or gay couples in general. //SqueezeMe
Anyone living in CA knows that Prop 8 was a huge deal -- every third TV ad was about it, either pro or con. You'd have to be living in a cave (does MissBear hibernate?), not to be aware of the issue. And most gay people will tell you that they were aware of their sexual orientation at a very young age. These days, in certain parts of the country, it's not uncommon for kids to be out -- there are even *gasp* gay kid couples who go to school dances -- that's not an assertion or an opinion, it's a reality -- it may not be your reality, but it is true nonetheless. ~ Rhonda
Kids discuss every major political issue. Mine were obsessed with the presidential campaign last year. People who think they wouldn't discuss Prop 8, or gay marriage, don't know kids at all. --Crane eom
How can kids be out? Is this what society has come to? Kids don't know anything about sex and relationships so how can they be 'out'? I'll tell you what's happening. They think being gay is the latest trend. They glamourize it it's on T.V all the time like it's cool. They sell gay merchandise at some stores like rainbow colored belts, buttons that read 'yay for gay' , gay Bert and Ernie, some 'lesbians are cool' Tshirt....... They sell these things at Hot Topic and Spensers and others.If kids are confused that's why.
Not even many adults are discussing every political issues let alone children. Give me a break, who are you fooling? Kids are more interested in getting homework done, videogames, friends, school functions like dances, music..... Unless your talking about some genius kids in special schools maybe. The kids that listen to classical music. Lisa Simpson would.
What do you mean 'How can kids be out?' -- they are! Check out the 9/23/09 NY Times magazine article ''Coming Out in Middle School'' if you don't believe me. Kids are coming out younger and younger and showing amazing courage in doing so because they may very well face bullying, taunting, and violence. But there's growing acceptance too and that's where the future is headed. And I think that's great. ~ Rhonda
How naive do you have to be to think that kids don't know anything about sex and relationships? Though it is regrettable, a pretty big number of kids are sexually active as young as middle school -- straight or gay. And the ones who are not sexually active are not totally dumb about the issue. It's a fact of life that some kids realize their sexual orientation at a young age. --Crane eom
I don't believe that for one second. If that's true the future looks pretty bad. Sounds like from what say, kids don't have any sense of right and wrong. They think anything goes as long as it feels right. I sure hope not!
I think it's crappy parenting to allow their child to 'come out' when they don't even know anything at that age. Most children as I said don't know a thing about sex and certainly don't know about relationships. Gay is trendy is all they know. Our culture is in a major crisis if this is being allowed. I'm sure many people read that artical in disgust.
I think anybody who thinks this is acceptable of children should be ashamed.
''I don't believe that for one second.'' Whether you believe it or not is immaterial. From 6-11 percent of kids have sex for the first time before age 14. And most of the others would be self-aware about their orientation, even if they are waiting until they get older. --Crane eom
''I think it's crappy parenting to allow their child to 'come out' when they don't even know anything at that age.'' What would you suggest parents do -- respond to a child's announcement of his or her sexual orientation by punishing them or forbidding them to feel that way? That's terrific parenting. If you want to produce unhappy, self-loathing or perhaps even suicidal gay teens. --Crane eom
A child shouldn't have a sexual orientation that's the whole point! What are children doing having sex? You think that is acceptable?
You seem to think having a sexual orientation is the same as being sexually active -- it's not. But as Crane points out, plenty of kids are, which is a sad reality. Sexual orientation just means you're aware of the gender you're attracted to. Kids have crushes on other kids all the time, they have an awareness of their own sexual orientation -- why wouldn't they? ~ Rhonda
As Rhonda said, there's a difference between knowing your sexual orientation and having sex. I think kids should wait until they are in their late teens or wait for marriage (if they are so inclined). But that doesn't mean it's bad for them to know themselves, and recognize their sexual orientation, at a younger age. And it certainly doesn't mean they should be ashamed of who they are. --Crane eom
Whatever feels good do it. Anything goes.
Forgive me, Miss B for wanting to laugh a little, but you might be interested to know that in the sixties and seventies, the phrase, ''If it feels good, do it'' could have easily meant smoking those dreaded marijuana cigarettes to those of my parent's generation. The way you talk so easily about weed would have prompted much the same response as you have to the idea of kids knowing their sexual orientation. Marijuana was for ''hippies'' and ''free thinkers'' and might lead to all kinds of hanky panky, and yes, by hanky panky I mean(perish the thought!) orgies. You wouldn't remember Timothy Leary, and ''Turn On, Tune in, Drop out'' but I think my parents and a lot of others that age lived in fear of him all during my adolescence. So, I'm curious. At what age do you think a kid should be smoking his or her first joint? Proudmary
Good point, Proudmary. I believe it's healthier to laugh than to shake your head when confronted with stupendous ignorance and obstinacy.
Hanky panky? LOL Did people actually say that? There's nothing wrong with a little weed. I like to listen to music when stoned. Now that you completely changed the subject.......
Actually, I didn't quite change the subject, Miss B., I just took it in another direction, but you didn't answer my question. At what age do you think a kid should smoke his or her first joint? And in answer to your question yes, people did say hanky- panky. Back then to me it seemed like a catch all phrase for anything the adults disapproved of, marijuana being only one of those many things. Do you ever wonder why marijuana is against the law today? Proudmary
The only reason marijuana is against the law is because they had to make something illegal. There's really no reason for it to be illegal, it's completely harmless. I would say age 17 or 18 is a good age to smoke a joint for the first time.
none
Attentiion Miss B. If you want to read my message to you, I accidently put it in the message area, so just click on the word above that says ''none'' for my response to your point. Proudmary
I was saying 17 or 18 is the better age to smoke that first joint. Smoking it before that is no big deal but prefrebly 17 or 18. I believe you are wrong about the homosexual lifestyle not being a choice. There is no gene or chromsome or any medical evidence supporting a child is born gay. They've been trying to prove it but have come up with nothing. I think it has a lot to do with a child's upbringing or a bad experience with the oposite gender. Doctor's or scientists have never prooved it is something one is born with.
Studies of twins have shown that there is clearly a genetic component to sexual orientation. It isn't a simple genetic trait like blood groups, and there are non-genetic components such as fetal development, but genes have been linked to sexual orientation in fruit flies etc., and sexual orientation correlates with brain structure and other physical attributes. On the other hand, there is no evidence whatsoever in support of what YOU think. Variations in sexual orientation are seen across all kinds of upbringing, and siblings with the same upbringing have different orientations. Nobody switches orientation after a bad experience either; anyone who has come out later in life can tell you that the attraction to the same sex was always there. Isn't it hypocritical and foolish of you to believe what you want to believe without any proof, while dismissing scientific evidence because it's not simple enough for you to understand?
Yeah? Where did you read that from? I'm done debating this with you. You have no evidence, you can talk all your fancy talk you want but it doesn't make what you say a fact. There is no proof that a person is born that way. They may try to prove it but not so. I've seen documentarys on T.V about it and there's no real proof of anything. It's all enviornmental.
....there is plenty of evidence supporting what I think. Who's ever heard of a gay baby? They learn it from somewhere.
No one can tell whether a baby's straight, so your argument is meaningless. Any reputable documentary would tell you that the etiology of sexual orientation is complex, but experts on child development agree that it's determined very early, definitely before puberty. Last year, a study of all gender-matched twins in Sweden between the ages of 20 and 47 concluded that female sexual behaviour is attributable to a combination of 18-19% genetics, 16-17% shared environmental factors (such as family or societal attitudes) and 64-66% unique environmental factors (including fetal development and medical history as well as interpersonal relationships). Male sexual behaviour is attributable to a combination of 34-39% genetics and 61-66% unique environmental factors; shared environmental factors have zero influence on male sexuality. Thus, the genetic component of sexual orientation is very real, but there are non-genetic factors as well. What we can rule out is the notion that gay men are the product of broken homes or absent fathers.
I say your arguements are meaningless. I don't know where your getting your information but nothing what you say has ever been proven. It sounds like a list of unproved theorys.
Miss B. I don't know where you are getting your information about marijuana. How do you know for a fact that it is completely harmless as you say? Proudmary
That's a scientific fact that marijuana is harmless. It's been proven over and over. It's common knowledge.
I see, the medical science is valid when it embraces your recreational activity choice, but when it comes to all the recent biological studies that indicate an early determination of sexual orientation that is fixed at birth, you choose to ignore or decide it cannot be scientifically valid? Perhaps you should avoid all rootops from now on. Who knows when that evil refer madness might hit you in the future? Proudmary
But there has NOT ever been any medical science whatsover to prove once and for all a child is born gay. All there are is a list of theorys that can be disproved by other scientists or doctors. In the case of marijuana every doctor can agree the plant is harmless and does not cause panic attacks or homicidal behavior like in Refer Madness. That is the difference.
The doctors don't all agree that marijuana is completely harmless. According to studies at the Mayo clinic regarding medicinal use of marijuana and its benefits, there are also risks involved with smoking pot, including, impairment of thinking, problem solving skills, and memory, reduced balance and coordination, increased risk of heart attack, heightened risk of chronic cough and respiatory infections, potential for halucinations and withdrawal symptoms. It also contains 50 percent to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke, and has the potential to cause cancer of the lungs and respiratory tract. The thing about us human beings is we all tend to pick and choose the information that best supports our individual points of view. Proudmary
That info is actually true for those who smoke it every single day several times a day. For those who smoke once in a while like once or twice a week or every other week it's okay and doesn't have those effects. Doctors agree it does not cause homicidal behavior or panic attacks. You still have yet to make your point.
Posted by: Brhannada^sArmour
Date posted: Wed Oct 21 22:12:55 2009
Message:
Well, there are sensible kids as well as ignorant kids, and if not for their parents teaching them to hate, most kids would remain innocent enough to see nothing wrong with a kiss. I give Shane's mother credit for raising him to be self-assured enough that he doesn't have to put anyone down to make himself feel better. I'm sure he's seen people kissing before, and it doesn't bother him because he can mind his own business. The way he was staring with interest, however, I suspect that he found it hot. If Shane is gay or bisexual, it can only do him good to see grown-ups being uninhibited about it. And he couldn't ask for a more affirming grandmother.
I did find it odd that he would say that he wanted his parents to kiss, rather than wanting them to be happy together. Kids don't usually get into the mechanics like that.
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Oh boy,, you again. It has nothing to do with hate. He is a 11 year old kid seeing two men kissing. His reaction was odd. Its common sense to think that a kid that age would have a weird reaction to a same sex kiss. Please take off your gay police uniform for once and just see the obvious. Everything is not about hate.
Maybe if you could explain what difference it makes that it's a same-sex kiss, and why every kid, straight or gay, has to be uncomfortable with other people doing what other people want to do, I might be able to see the situation from your perspective, but there are certainly other points of view.
Shane is another Horrible Actor.
I am so sick of all this political correctness on this show. It makes me not sad the show is going under. I don't care they have a gay character or 2 or 3 but do they need to go overboard on all this? Shane being all politicaly correct everybody being pc. If we have character that doesn't support it they're portrayed as some ultra conservative nutjob like Fish's parents or that mayor in prison
Miss Bear, I totally agree with you.
wow, original poster, your comments are strange, to say the least. you're talking about a young boy! gosh...!!
I would expect Shane to think his parents kissing would be yucky. I don't know many 11 year old boys that like kissing, at all! I would have expected him to say, ''Ewww, gross,'' to see any couple, of any gender kissing! I didn't think that boys his age knew all that much about same-sex relationships. But maybe I'm just naive and Shane is ahead of me. eom/jenny
Shane is ahead of nobody. A normal 12 year old seeing two men kiss would have a very different reaction. All the political correction isn't going to change that. The one thing about kids is they don't hold back. Many adults would be uncomfortable seeing that let alone a 12 year old. Very poor writting.
Exactly, it has nothing to do with hate. Its about the reality of a little boy's reaction to seeing two men kissing. I don't care how Shane was raised, it still would startle a child when he sees two men kissing for the first time. I'm grown and it startled me when I first saw it and I don't have to defend my beliefs to anyone.
Why do you assume that Shane has never seen a gay couple before? I love how many people here want to define what is normal and exclude gays from their definition. This is Llanview we're talking about, a town where a vicious gang rapist owns one of the major papers and is the brother of a mayoral candidate, a reformed hooker, murderer and drug addict is the DA's daughter and a two-time killer is the other mayoral candidate. Yet two normal gay people sharing a public display of affection is when it becomes a freak show for you. --Crane eom
I never heard anybody give Todd a pass on raping Marty. People including me were disgusted with his love scenes last year involving Marty. Soaps have always been about the criminals and storys. Gay storys is not what made soaps the way they are today. I'm just going to say it, I don't want to see same sex kisses on my screen. It bothers me as a viewer. I'm FAR from the only one. There are many diappointed viewers. OLTL is tanking it should be gone by sometime next year maybe that's why the writters are going overboard o this.
Most kids have straight parents so it's pretty safe bet Shane hasn't witnessed such a thing before. He hasn't been around any gays either. I'm an adult and haven't seen that and hope not to.
You're an adult who hopes you never have to see a gay kiss in real life? Nice. Do you also live in dread that a darky might kiss a white woman in your presence? --Crane eom
''I never heard anybody give Todd a pass on raping Marty.'' Todd has been the male lead on this soap for more than a decade. Did you once during that time express the opinion that viewers were going to quit OLTL because they wouldn't be able to watch a gang rapist? If not, where was the outrage that you now feel over the sight of normal gay people? In your world are gays worse than gang rapists? --Crane eom
First of all you cannot compare interacial relations to same sex kissing so don't even compare the two you look silly. I have nothing against interacial dating. I am not racist because I don't ever want to witness samesex kissing. A great majority of people don't want to witness that are they racist too? Racisim has nothing to do with this. Just keep piling the names on it's what you do best.
I actually stopped watching the show for a while when they showed Marty and Todd. I showed my outrage. I don't want see same sex kisses either that's my right.
Looks like I struck a nerve. Your attitude about gays is exactly the same as how racists treated interracial couples in the past. --Crane eom
Gay is a choice not a race so that is why you cannot compare the 2. Gay is not the norm. A whole race of people were mistreated, abused and brought over here as slaves. It is absolutely ridiculous to even put the two in the same catagory.
I wasn't talking about hatered toward gays. I don't condone hatred for anyone.I was saying that I don't want see same sex kisses and somehow some way that made me a racist???
Anyway, getting tired of all this polical correctness. I had all the pc I can handle.
''Gay is a choice ...'' If gay is a choice then straight is a choice too. How old were you when you chose to be straight? What were the factors in your decision? Did you tell your parents and your friends that you had chosen to be heterosexual? Did they support you? If these questions seem absurd to you, then maybe you should recognize that sexual orientation is not a choice. --Crane eom
Being hetero is natural. If it wasn't for hetero we wouldn't be sitting here debating this. We wouldn't have reproduction or evolution. Homosexuals cannot reproduce without a third a party. There isn't any evidence supporting a child is born gay. I don't care if they chose to be gay that's up to them. I just didn't want to see this compared to race issues. A gay person has the option to hide and avoid discrimination but a black person doesn't. Their skin is the first thing people see. It is two totally different subjects. I'm done here. You can put down more of your pc lectures I don't care.
Ability to reproduce is not a valid definition of ''natural'' or ''normal.'' Bonobos, the species most closely related to humans, are 100% bisexual, while female Japanese macaques prefer to mate with each other 19 times as often as they mate with males. Clearly, the survival of a species does not require every individual to be exclusively heterosexual. Your presumption that everyone is naturally heterosexual is unfounded, and since you claim that homosexuality is a choice, the burden of proof is on you to find evidence that it is. You would have just as much trouble proving that everyone is naturally right-handed and some people choose to be left-handed, because it's simply not true. Of course there is plenty of scientific evidence that genetic and developmental factors contribute to sexual orientation: for starters, identical twins are more likely to have the same sexual orientation than fraternal twins, and every time a woman is pregnant with a boy, it increases the probability that her next son will be gay. The distinction you make between race and sexual orientation is immaterial because injustice is not determined by the victim's ability to hide. If someone has to choose between hiding and being targeted, that's already an injustice. Carla Gray could pass for white - does that mean that laws against interracial marriage were OK? There were Jews who passed for Aryan - does that mean that concentration camps were OK? There is no ethnic difference between Tutsi and Hutu - does that mean that the Rwandan holocaust can't be compared to racism?
Posted by: connie
Date posted: Wed Oct 21 22:10:22 2009
Message:
They are really shoving the PC down our Throats. A Teen Boy not doing anything. It's a joke
