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Topic: SHOULD DOCTORS BE FORCED TO PERFORM PROCEDURES THAT ARE UNCOMFORTABLE FOR THEM


Topic Posted by: Janie
Date Posted: Wed Aug 20 16:51:10 2008
Additional Comments:

This comes from a case in Vista, CA where a lesbian woman sued a doctor for refusing to provide artificial insemination on her.  However, the doctor did refer her to another doctor who did do it and she now has a cute little 6 year old according to the picture in our newpaper.

Once again, the liberal Calif supreme court has ruled that doctors can't refuse 'full and equal access to medical treatment irrespective of sexual orientation.'

I realize that this woman wants to make a statement and if I were a lesbian, I might do the same thing but I doubt it.  She got the treatment.  She has a lovely child so why does she need to sue the doctor?

In fact, I had a similar situation when I was in my 20s and the Mom of 2 kids.  I wanted a tubal ligation and the gyn that I went to refused to do it.  His rationale was that I might regret it later as I might want more kids, my husband could die and I might remarry and want a kid with the new husband, etc.  I would never have considered suing him for his beliefs.  He felt that he would only sterilize women who had had at least 4 kids.  He wasn't the only doctor in the world so I found another one who would perform the procedure for me.

Does this now mean that doctors who are opposed to abortion should be forced to do them anyhow?  Is there any real difference between abortion and artificial insemination if that's what a woman wants (in the way of medical treatment?)

Once again, I think the Calif supreme court has made a mistake but that's what happens with liberal judges.  JMHO.





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Posted by: Ryder
Date posted: Mon Aug 25 16:38:52 2008
Message:

For your consideration:

SERVICE MANAGER TO CUSTOMER AT AUTO DEALERSHIP REPAIR CENTER:

''Sorry, but I'm not authorizing the repair of your SUV even though it's clearly still under the extended warranty contract you purchased from our agent a year ago. And while it's true I'm the manufacturer's only dealer in the county -- quite honestly -- it makes no difference to me that you're now going to have to have the darn thing towed 100 miles at your own expense to the next closest dealer with a certified mechanic .... because I saw you cheating on your wife last weekend and adultery is sin, and I don't want to be a party to you driving around in that SUV with your mistress.''

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  • And for a longer version on how I really feel .. inside

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    Posted by: Brhannada^sArmour
    Date posted: Sun Aug 24 23:36:12 2008
    Message:

    Janie, thank you for inviting me to comment. I believe in freedom of religion. If a nurse like Barb says, ''I won't assist with abortions for anyone,'' and is willing to lose employment where abortions are part of the job, that's an appropriate exercise of freedom of religion. However, if a nurse says, ''I will assist with abortions only for white women,'' should s/he be allowed to create potential scheduling and insurance problems for some patients but not others? Should the law say, ''Who gets treated where is up to the individual service provider's conscience?'' Or, is this an occasion to invoke laws against discrimination to ensure equal access to medical services for everyone?

    Like most people, I wouldn't want to be treated by a doctor who found me or the procedure morally repugnant. Guadalupe Benitez probably feels the same way. Her lawsuit (which is still being decided by a lower court) isn't about forcing these two doctors to act against their religion. It's about telling them to make that choice before they accept a job providing a service that the law promises to everyone equally. If Dr. Christine Brody and Dr. Douglas Fenton aren't willing to perform artificial insemination on all women who qualify under the law, they shouldn't be allowed to provide it just to the elite class of their choice. Whether they stipulate that their patients must be heterosexual or that they must be married should not be the issue. (Unfortunately, it has been an issue because this lawsuit was brought before the California Supreme Court made it clear that discrimination on the basis of marital status is also prohibited.) The law must not allow doctors to give special status to anyone, or to turn anyone away. Ms. Benitez had to go outside her insurance plan to get inseminated. A heterosexual woman (or, as the doctors now claim, a married woman) would not have had to bear that expense. Is that fair?

    The legal principle that the California Supreme Court upheld in this decision is that the service provider's freedom of religion is not a loophole in the law against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. Drs. Brody and Fenton cannot get Ms. Benitez's lawsuit thrown out of court simply by saying, ''It's our religion.'' If the court had changed the law so that individual doctors could discriminate with impunity, what is to stop hospitals and clinics from hiring doctors with a tacit understanding that racial and sexual minorities won't receive treatment that is covered by their insurance plans? If applied to other professions, the supremacy of freedom of religion would allow Muslim taxi drivers to say, ''Leave that alcohol behind at the airport, or we won't provide transportation to your hotel,'' and Muslim gas station attendants could say, ''Our religion forbids women to travel without male chaperones, so we fill tanks for male drivers only.'' Is that what the First Amendment is supposed to protect?

    Some people have commented that because Ms. Benitez was able to find someone else to perform the insemination, and it wasn't an emergency procedure, this must be a frivolous lawsuit, ''an axe to grind.'' It is not. Because Ms. Benitez took the time out of her life to bring this matter to the court's attention, the law has been made clear to those who want to violate it according to their own prejudices, and future victims of discrimination may have been spared a fight that they could not afford.

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    Posted by: muffin
    Date posted: Thu Aug 21 21:24:15 2008
    Message:
    well, i personally think that you shouldn't be able to make anyone do ANYTHING...being a dr. is a job, just like any other. it's like hiring a contractor...if you pay him you can expect services to be rendered. i'm assuming she didn't pay him for the a.i. and then he decided not to do it. otherwise, she might have a case. but i would think it would be the drs decision whether or not to do it. just my opinion...

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    Posted by: Tosca
    Date posted: Thu Aug 21 20:14:57 2008
    Message:
    I don't think she has a case. The key words are "medical TREATMENT". She wasn't denied treatment for a health condition.  She was denied a procedure that was not a health issue.  C Can women sue because their gyno won't perform an abortion? I don't think so, but I'm not sure.  Can they sue a Catholic hospital because they don't do abortions?  I think they just go to a different hospital/doctor.  How about a plastic surgeon who won't implant DDDs, just DDs.  Can the patient sue for that?  The world is getting crazier by the minute.

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    Posted by: maggimae
    Date posted: Thu Aug 21 15:50:26 2008
    Message:

    I pity the poor doctor. He'll probably lose in court. His malpractice insurance will go up and we'll all pay for that.

    The United States is the most litiginous country in the world. One time when I was living in Australia, I went to the grocery store at night. The parking lot was not lit and there was an open trench had no barrier and was not marked. I fell in, banged up my leg and ruined the pant suit I was wearing. I asked the grocery store (large chain that has stores in the US) to replace the pant suit. No deal. And I was told by my Aussie friends that I should just suck it up which is just what I did. Can you see that happening in the U. S.?

    Our system is out of whack when people can get large settlements for such things as spilling hot coffee on themselves. Of course the tort lawyers are the ones who make the money. People who bring these silly suits should have to pay court costs when they lose them.

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  • There was a grocery shop open at NIGHT? lol Wow, where was that, I need to move there! - Petunia -
  • Yep, it was a Safeway in Melbourne./mm

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    Posted by: Barb
    Date posted: Wed Aug 20 22:29:39 2008
    Message:
    You said "full and equal access to medical treatment irrespective of sexual orientation" concerning physicians. This does not mean that the doc in question cannot find another doc who would do this or any procedure that the patient insists on having. That lady who wants to sue doesn't have a chance in my opinion. Her wish was granted with the HELP of the attending physician. Remember the soldiers who were "contiencious(sp?) objectors" who refused to kill/carry a weapon in the war? They have a right to their beliefs. There is no way I would assist(as a nurse) any doc who wanted to perform an abortion-someone else would have to take my place. It's just something I could not live with and my rights should take priority.

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    Posted by: Sammie
    Date posted: Wed Aug 20 19:34:02 2008
    Message:
    What was her beef?  Did she prove that he didn't do it because she was a lesbian?  If the Dr. was aware of the law it would be pretty dumb of him to tell her he wouldn't do it because of the sexual preference.  I have heard that they are starting to put a stop to some of the petty lawsuits against doctors and hospitals.  However, I have heard of plenty of careless mistakes that some hospitals and their staffs are making which they do deserve to be sued for.  But, this lady was not harmed in any way so I cannot see why she would sue over such a needless thing.  

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  • From what I could get from the article, I believe that the doctor stated that he would not perform the A.I. because she was unmarried not because she was a lesbian. So that opens a whole other kettle of worms as gay marriage is now legal in Calif. I agree that a health care provider should be able to refer to another one if their values conflict with the proposed treatment. Why would you want to force someone to treat you who doesn't believe in the treatment? This woman obviously has an ax to grind and so the the Calif supreme court. J.
  • Janie - You'll have to explain your opinion about the California Supreme Court. If you're referring to the same-sex marriage decision in May, that decision was split 4-3. One of the female justices who is a conservative lesbian even voted against it. In this case, the court was originally split 5-2 in even agreeing to hear the case. That meant from the get-go, two of the justices didn't think it had merit to be re-heard. Yet, after hearing all the evidence, the decision was unanimous that this action was illegal per existing state law (Unruh Civil Rights Act). Unanimous decisons usually mean it's not a liberal/conservative issue. - Ryder

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