All My Children Discussion Group

Topic: For Those Who Say The Problem Is AMC Is Showing Its Age

I wanted to comment on those who attribute AMC's problems to AMC's showing its age.

I don't believe AMC is showing age. 

The WRITERS and PRODUCERS and all that..TPTB...are killing it. There are millions of stories yet to be told as we follow the people of a somewhat small town. The CREATIVE people who do the storylines and write the scripts...they're killing it. AGE has nothing to do with it. GL went on for 72 years. AMC is just turning 40...it's not even middle aged yet.

AGE doesn't mean it's not always very good...the creative people MAKE it no good. I don't know the age of the writers and producers of AMC...but whatever the case they've lost a sense of the grand history and style of AMC. 

Maybe they've fiddled with it TOO much in trying to keep it relevant in today's world. But you see it CAN still be relevant...certainly relevancy is not the problem.

The problem is repeatedly starting off in one direction on a storyline and then SUDDENDLY making a sharp turn in another direction! They started that thing of NOT showing us important scenes but instead having something take place offstage and then we hear the after discussion...how many times I've gone through transcripts to see if I MISSED an episode...because the one I've recorded starts off mid-conversation about something I never saw happen.

Then there's the concept of keeping to the integrity of the characters as they've been created.  That was ALWAYS AMC's goldmine...you just came to know the characters and how they'd react..they could GROW and CHANGE but the audience was part of that..we SAW it happen..we KNEW why they character changed..for better or worse...we could AGREE with why something happened...we'd BUY it.

But today it's like they're always pressed for time and they have to HURRY the stories by cutting out things we should be seeing...and by not supporting sudden changes in how a character acts/reacts/lives his-her life.  

I'm not saying they do not draw out storyline wrapups for too long at times.  I'm saying they seem to "gain time" by cutting out VERY IMPORTANT things...by not carefully crafting changes in characters...so that we can believe and accept those changes.  Even an odious change to a character...someone you love takes a turn to the darkside...can be accepted if we, the audience, SEE why and can BELIEVE it...we understand the REASON behind it. 

I think TPTB at AMC/ABC think the audience has a short attention span and cannot handle the plot and character development that to me is VITAL to the quality of the show.  They think we watch a soap the way people get our news...in snippets.  I don't believe that.  From what I've read from posters on the board - the valid critiques and the astute observations - we CRAVE well-developed plot and characters. 

But they change the integrity of the character, as created, at the drop of a hat without giving us anything of substance to help us understand and accept.  It's insulting particularly to long-time characters that long-time fans have a comfort level with--we know and understand them -- but now suddenly, the character becomes almost unrecognizable...but for what reason??  It's the same with these sudden, lurching turns in a storyline! 

They don't GIVE us reasons for these sudden changes and turns by TELLING us something in a STORY..they do not CRAFT these things..they do not SUPPORT these things...and all we're left with is to say, "well I'll GUESS at filling in the blanks this leaves in my mind to see if I CAN accept this sudden change."  I cannot tell you the number of times I've had to do that..and have discussed it on the board when others question the same things I've questioned.  We just have to guess. 

Well if I wanted to GUESS at why someone does something, or is the way he/she is, or has changed in a certain way...I WOULDN'T TAKE THE TIME TO WATCH A SOAP OPERA!!   I'd just LIVE MY LIFE!...because that's how real life is quite often...dealing with the 'blanks' in relationships! 

But when I watch a SOAP, I want to KNOW my characters...see what is going on behind the scenes of THEIR lives so I can put it all together and say, "Aha...this is why (for instance) Tad did something that appears to be really bad... and this is why his father Dr. Joe is upset about it...but I know Tad's reasons and the situation even though Dr. Joe doesn't.. so I don't reject him...I'll wait and see how this plays out."

I'm not saying I want to know the "end" of every storyline; I'm saying I have to have enough "information" about the plot and the characters so that when we GET to the end, I buy it.  It's the climax and I'm satisfied.   

I truly believe that the failure continually to DEVELOP the characters and plot - and to remain FAITHFUL to the integrity of the character within a given plot as the character has been developed to date - THAT is what is killing AMC...not age.

To me, what has happened to AMC is like a slow acting disease finding its way into a 40-year old's body...the person wasn't OLD...the person was affected by a disease. The DISEASE of the creative people who handle AMC is what is killing it.

Y'know AMC used to be a half hour show..and they could do MORE to develop characters and storylines in a half hour than they now are doing in one hour. That's pitiful.

But please don't tell yourself it's too old a show...it's a show that's gotten an illness and nobody at AMC/ABC is trying to cure it. We'll see what LA brings..but I don't trust them...do you?

ITA, the writers are lazy and unprofessional.    Scooting along with unanswered resolve and changing the characters is frustrating.   And if they think the small percentage who are seniors ''forget'' what happened, or why, they are WRONG.   Also, they too buy cars, frigs, deordant, detergents, etc. .

I remember hearing one of them say a little while ago, that the audience now is just middle aged and seniors.  They’ve made it perfectly obvious that they don’t give a rat’s a$$ about us.  They know we’ll watch out of habit and so they don’t care what they feed us, consequently they feed us crap.  I really don’t know why I keep watching.  They’re right.  It’s out of habit.    

We, the audience, aren't seen as valuable enough for Corp. to bother with.  Remember, this IS the Corp entity that said that Agnes Nixon 'knows nothing about soaps' & who thinks (in general) that the audience has 'brains of oatmeal' and 'the collective attention span of a gnat'.  The same audience can be watching primetime & we are perceived as considerable more valuable, but not much more intelligent, demonstrated by their idea of programming the last several yrs.

Soaps have lost their sense of place.  They are about the story, not gimmicks & weak stories that have easily forseeable ends.  I can't recall the last time a soap really moved me or had me on the edge of my seat.  It used to be that if I missed an episode (or even taped it) I felt like I had missed something.  Knowing I had taped an episode was like looking forward to opening a gift.  I can't recall the last time that ANY soap did that.

Age isn't the issue.  Lack of affinity for soaps, Corp. changes in the perception of the audience, dumbing things down...these have all contributed to making the shows unwatchable for millions.  They didn't happen BECAUSE of the audience, they happened in spite of us! 

Replies: (list all replies)

I agree...I didn't know that that's what's been said about the soap audience so I guess I figured that out on my own...that they think we have the attention span of a gnat! I don't watch other soaps so that's really too bad if it's across the board. Perhaps it's the death of an art form! SORAS

SORAS, take everything Rosebud says with a grain of salt. She's out of touch, like Agnes Nixon. I love AMC and think it's as good as it was when I first started watching it in 1972. I don't buy into the negativity that Rosebud always spews. AMC and my other soaps are very much interesting and I can't wait for each days episodes!

SORAS: It IS the unnecessary death of an artform. TPTB (Corp) keep spinning this as everyone else's fault, but fail to look in the mirror. Technology shouldn't have been used as a scapegoat either. It should have been embraced & utilized the way it was from radio to tv. There are still excellent writers out there & potentially many excellent writers for future generations. As far as the move, as I've said since it was announced, the solution isn't a geographic 'cure'. Moving is rarely the answer IRL or in soap opera land. Moving isn't going to make better storytelling or make for less gimmicky, plot driven storylines. It certainly isn't going to make the decision makers more in tune w/their audience or more knowledgeable about the genre. GL should have continued for another 72 yrs, at least! The only way they (or any soap) is 'out of story' is when there isn't a good creative process going on behind the scenes. eom

There's negative Nellie again!

Gina: WHAT is negative about wanting soaps to continue at their potential?! I

With all due respect to you, David K, SORAS and Rosebud are being realistic and perceptive rather than negative. Because, whether we like it or not, ALL the daytime soaps have suffered a major ratings drop over the past decade and judging by the latest numbers, continue to decline. That's an undeniable FACT. The posters here are simply analyzing what the problem is and how, potentially, to reverse a downward trend. It isn't negativity to pinpoint a problem in hopes of fixing it! I only wish that the current ABC execs were half as astute as some of the people on this board. Understatement

AMC was my rest period when I was raising my kids, they knew that when AMC came on that was Mommy's quiet time, they grew up with it. I loved and hated all the characters and even my husband would ask what happened today. I know it is only a soap but it has been a part of our lives for 40 years and I hate what has been done to AMC/goldie

Ratings are down for ALL dayparts, not just daytime. There are so many more ways to view these shows. ABC.com shows AMC, of course there's Soapnet and now with DVR recording, those numbers aren't counted until the episode is played back. The weekly ratings that are released don't tell the whole story anymore. Just today, I read that The Office is huge in DVR playbacks. They add more than 30 percent from their initial ratings. Daytime never releases live plus 7 day ratings to the public. My point is that I am still loving AMC and I'm not so sure that the total number of viewers is so small once you factor in all formats where the show is seen.

But Gina, if the playbacks are counted, then DVR numbers aren't accurate. One of the reasons I was told that the only thing that counted was the actual recording was because otherwise one household could count multiple times, which wouldn't be anything close to an accurate reflection of the number of people watching per household. If each playback is counted, then I could watch a favorite episode 20 times & skew the count ridiculously high! The other thing is, we aren't seeing those millions of lapsed viewers all racing to view the shows on the Internet or in Podcast form. They are gone & TPTB (Corp)--across the board--have said that they have no interest in regaining lapsed fans. They see no future in it. They are ONLY interested in new, ie: younger viewership. They don't care about viewers who were around to see Erica & Phil's relationship, or Phoebe's rivalry (even in her own mind) w/Mona over Charles. Phil & Tara are so far back, today's Suits don't think that any audience they consider 'valuable' are interested. But then, their lack of interest & misperceptions about who/what their desired audience 'wants' to see pushes out even those of us who remember Erica & Dimitri, etc. eom

Rosebud, take it up with the Nielsen Company if you think their technology is so wrong. These days, Network Execs and Show runners anxiously wait for the Live +7 ratings because those include DVR playbacks. My understanding is that the technology is sophisticated enough to not count multiple viewings. Kind of like how sophisticated website employ the technology that you can't vote in polls twice from the same computer because they track IP addresses. Live +7 ratings are where its at these days.

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Posted by: CaroleA
Date posted: Sun Nov 1 11:51:03 2009
Message:

I will admit I didn't read all of your post, but I did pick up on something that, to me, is vital:  the integrity of the characters.  I've only watched AMC since 1971, but the current writers have turned Jesse upside down.  I was so excited when it was announced he was coming back, and I love Darnell Williams and his portrayal of Jesse.  But the Jesse I love would never stoop to these kinds of tactics. 

Tad would never murder someone and then just say "Oops, it was the storm."

Erica would not be involved with Ryan--not because he is decades younger than she is--but because of the relationship to Kendall and Spike.  I still believe Erica is a beautiful woman, and why the writers have to make Ryan the sun and everyone else planets is beyond me.

The whole Amanda/David/Jake thing is beyond stupid.  In what universe would this sort of thing be tolerated?  Apparently in the writers' universe.

The Zach that came to PV wouldn't use the spy vs. spy tactics.  He would be too cool for that.  Kendall wouldn't confess to a murder she didn't commit, even if she thought she did. 

I wish the writers would read some of the boards.

Replies: (list all replies)

You sure nailed that one right! ICAM

Yes I agree with all of your points...sorry for the LONG topic post but I was just lounging on the couch typing non stop...I'm tired today...even with the gained hour...so I just sat and typed..when I was done I said nobody's going to read that! LOL...yawn...SORAS

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